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Gordon Alfred Cavell

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Paul HiltonPremier Member - Click for more info
Paul Hilton
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quotePosted at 13:00 on 13th February 2011

Yes Cathy; Alfred's background in England seems a bit odd; equally, he's not on the 1871 Census either, the only one he should have appeared on, so have been puzzling this. And also how Gordon's opening comments have come to pass compared to the story Canadian records are comming out with---------"Gordon Alfred Cavell came to Canada early in the century and settled in Schenectady, New York.He left from Ramsgate, County Kent, England."

Pehaps Gordon might be able to shed some light on this discrepancy of events and, apart from Alfred, the rest of the family are Canadian.

In 1901, there is a Cavell family living in Ramsgate all of whom were born there too. I was thinking working back from them might show a connection to Alfred c. 1870s ? 



Edited by: Paul Hilton at:13th February 2011 13:26
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Gordon Cerniglia
Gordon Cerniglia
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quotePosted at 14:36 on 13th February 2011
Hello Paul, thank you for the help.  Gordon Alfred Cavell was born in January 1895 so some of your dates are too early.  Probably came to Canada around 1910 or later.  His mother who came over too should be on that 1901 census and her name was Nellie Cavell.  The only other relative I know of is his brother Earl who was in Schenectady also. His brother was younger but I don't know the exact DOB.
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Diana Sinclair
Diana Sinclair
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quotePosted at 15:27 on 13th February 2011
Hi Gordon, and welcome to POE. :-)
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Paul HiltonPremier Member - Click for more info
Paul Hilton
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quotePosted at 15:49 on 13th February 2011

Thanks for letting us know about Earl;  also born in Canada in 1904; arrived in US in 1920, no doubt, New York. There's also a sister Ethyline born 1908 in Vermont. Mother Nellie's birthplace has been revised in the US census to New York, with these 3 living together in Schenectady.    1930 Federal Census; Schenectady refers.

On 21 January 1920, Charles Henry Cavell ( the only one still in Quebec) married Caroline Wenning at St Thomas, Montreal, Quebec.    Quebec Marriage Records refers.  



Edited by: Paul Hilton at:13th February 2011 20:59
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Gordon Cerniglia
Gordon Cerniglia
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quotePosted at 04:24 on 14th February 2011
Thank you so much for your efforts.  You are giving me names I have never heard before.  I have never heard of Ethyline or Charles Henry Cavell.  They were long gone in my time.  I doubt that Nellie Cavell was born in New York.  That means she would have had to return to England to give birth to my grandfather, Gordon.  Not likely, so that must be a records mistake. Or it was manipulated to keep her here in the US legally.  Great information, thank you.  GJC
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Paul HiltonPremier Member - Click for more info
Paul Hilton
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quotePosted at 14:39 on 14th February 2011

Hi Gordon---was wondering if you have read the first page of this thread and what I found before carrying on with this page?  It would be interesting if you have any very old marriage/birth certificates that would help in finding what was going on in the 1800s into early 1900s?

There is a certain amount of meddling going on with the Canadian and US documents info and it's your great-grand-parents, Alfred and Nellie ( real name Helen or Eleanor?)  where it's comming from. If you'd like copies of various documents I've come across as in earlier posts, just PM me with your email, and I'll send them to you for your evaluation.  But, none of them will be from England as so far, I haven't found any trace of this family,over here which should have turned up. Seems to me though, your great grand-parents are the interesting people especially in your family.  I also think everything their children put down on government forms is absolutely true.



Edited by: Paul Hilton at:14th February 2011 15:03
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Gordon Cerniglia
Gordon Cerniglia
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quotePosted at 19:30 on 14th February 2011

Hello Paul, I am now of the opinion that my grandfather Gordon Alfed Cavell, which is called his Christian name, was indeed born in Magog, Canada and not Great Britain in January 17,1895. His brother Earl born there in too.  I think I have been mixing up two families or generations. In 1916 he was in the Candian Militia, 53rd Regiment.  On March 25, 1916 he was going to be married in 20 days and was asking for a separation allowence. These are documents that I obtained from my cousin who has been helping me and trying to find the connection to Edith Cavell, the herione that I have always heard was a cousin of my grandfather.  If he was it must be through his father who I do not know his name or DOB.  It could be Alfred Cavell and his spouse would be Nellie but were they born in Canada or England?  I think now that my great grandfather, Gordon's father might be the individual who left England from Ramsgate instead of Gordon.  Nellie would have naturally been with him.  One thing I know is that Nellie Cavell,(maiden name not known) was not born in the US.  And it would have to be through his father if there was any relationship to Edith Cavell.  Regard, GJC

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Paul HiltonPremier Member - Click for more info
Paul Hilton
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quotePosted at 01:29 on 15th February 2011

To carry on in Quebec. St Lukes church records in Magog shows-----

1 November 1893:  Alfred  Lewis Cavell married Nellie Dora Hibbard; daughter of David Hibbard, carpenter who died 15 Oct. 1898 aged 62 and buried in the Methodist churchyard at Magog.

Most of their children baptised at St Lukes and 2 more to add---- 

David Homer Cavell b. 8 Feb. 1899.  died aged 5 weeks.

8 Oct 1901 Ho??ce Belle Cavell born. first name unreadable. 

And going back to Charles and Caroline-----had a son Charles Owen Cavell. born 18 March 1924. Baptised at St Lukes, Magog.

Earl O Cavell's exact date of birth was  1 March, 1904.



Edited by: Paul Hilton at:15th February 2011 02:54
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Paul HiltonPremier Member - Click for more info
Paul Hilton
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quotePosted at 03:14 on 15th February 2011

David Hibbard, born 1836 in Canada, was married to Harriet, born 1843.

Nellie's brothers and sisters were--Albert, Henry,Frank,Cora,Richard,Ines, and John.   

So, there's your gt gt Grandparents in Quebec, and they're a French-Canadien family rather than English Canadian. David was illiterate and the background origins of his wife Harriet was unknown.



Edited by: Paul Hilton at:15th February 2011 16:06
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Steve Cavell
Steve Cavell
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quotePosted at 17:25 on 1st January 2012

Maybe I can shed a little light as I am Alfred's great grandson.

 

Alfred Cavell claimed to be born in Ramsgate and he came to Canada at some point. Teh family myth was he came at age 12 with his uncle (would be around 1877) and settled in Magog, Quebec. There are still descendants of the uncle's family in the Eastern Townships (that region of Quebec).  He joined the army in WW1 but was sent back as he was too old. He worked as a gardener and cook (on the railway, mostly) when he was not a little too full of drink.  He died in Magog and is buried there (sometime in the late 40's)

 Nellie Hibbard was born in Ayer's Cliff, near Magog, into a large family which is now spread all over. They were not French Canadian as was suggested but were not well off either. I remember her sister in law Gertie who lived in Ayer's Cliff.  At some point her US based children took her to Schenectady and she lived with one of her daughters.  SHe died in the early 1960's.

 

Their five children were Ehelyne, Gordon, Charles, Florence and Earl (not sure of the birth order).

 

Gordon joined the Canadian army in WW1 but was sent home due to his physical condition.  At some point after that he went to Schenctady as did the 2 girls and Earl. 

Earl worked at a pipefitter at General Electric and his widow, Loretta, died a couple of years ago. They had no children.

One of Florence's daughters, Rosalyn, lives ner Schenectady stioll and has done a lot of work on the family tree.

 Charles served in WW1 and was injured in France. After the war he returned home. Charles stayed in Magog, and looked after Alfred.  Charles married Caroline Wenning and they had one son, Charles.

Charles senior and Caroline moved to the Ottawa area in 1976 and thye are both buried in  Kars, Ontario. Their son Charles served in WWW 2 and married Helen Dumas and had the four of us. They are also buried in Kars. The four of us are scattered around the  Province of ontario and have 11 kids betweenus. Most of them are in Ottawa or Toronto but 2 are in England.

 

So, Gordon, your grandfather was my grandfather's older brother.

 

By the way, nobody seems to have found any evidence of the Edith Cavell link although Alfred claimed to be her first cousin. Given there is no evidence of his being born in Ramsgatge the link is unclear. His father was apparently a bricklayer's assistant (hod carrier) and her father was awell to do clergyman from Norfolk.  The link is tenuous at best.

 

Cheers

 

Steve Cavell

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